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12
of money, perhaps as much as 140,000l. He added that it was also proposed to sell or dispose of Spring Gardens, and ultimately the commissariat buildings and head-quarter offices, and that it was expected in each case that the property would realize enough to re-provide the accommodation lost by its surrender, and to leave a balance of profit to go towards meeting the cost of the additional barracks for the increased garrison.
Mr. Knox estimates that the sale of the North Barracks and Spring Gardens will only produce 126,229l., and as he adds that provision must be made for the head-quarter offices, and the commissariat buildings elsewhere, my Lords presume that the lands on which these offices stand, and which Sir Lothian Nicholson thought would produce a considerable sum over and above the price of the North Barracks (140,000l.), must be included in this sale. If that be the case, it follows that Sir Lothian's estimate was altogether too high. It is most important that there should be no misunderstanding on this point, and my Lords must ask, therefore, for a description of the lands in possession of the War Office in Hong Kong, and also for explanation showing how far the proposal made in Mr. Knox's letter agrees with the proposals named by Sir Lothian Nicholson, so that the Treasury may understand to what extent deficiency is likely to arise upon Sir Lothian's estimate.
My Lords ask further whether it is intended that the lands proposed to be sold should be officially valued.
It is not clear whether the sum of 50,600l., required to replace the building lost by the sale of the lands, includes the cost of site. My Lords cannot but think that the Secretary of State should be able now to give a fairly accurate estimate of the cost of barrack and hospital accommodation, assuming the increase of the garrison to be sanctioned. The Secretary of State must have observed how invariably approximate estimates for works and armaments have resulted in an increase of the burthen imposed on the British taxpayer, and he will understand my Lords' anxiety to ascertain, as far as possible, the financial result of the somewhat complicated arrangement by which the War Office propose to furnish the accommodation required for the garrison of Hong Kong.
I am, &c.,
The Financial Secretary,
War Office.
R. E. WELBY.
EXTRACT from Treasury letter addressed to the Under Secretary of State, Colonial Office, 28th September 1889, respecting the contribution which the Colony of Hong Kong may fairly be expected to make towards the cost of its defence.
Barracks.
10. It will be necessary to provide additional barracks at Hong Kong for double the existing garrison. The rough and preliminary estimate of cost is 212,000l., apart from the value of a new site estimated at 30,000l., but Sir A. Haliburton's Committee say that this estimate may be exceeded.
It is proposed, as my Lords understand the proposal, that the Imperial Government shall sell land it now holds, valued at 140,000l., to the colony; that this money shall be applied towards the new barracks, reducing their net cost to 72,000l.; that the Imperial Government shall pay two-thirds of the charge, or 48,000l., and that the Colonial Government shall pay the balance, or 24,000l., providing also the land for the new barracks, estimated at 50,000l. The proposal therefore means that the Imperial Government should give up sites worth 140,000l., and should spend 48,000l. in cash; that the colony should find a new site costing 50,000l., and should spend 24,000l. in cash. The Committee do not say how they would provide for the excess which they anticipate upon the estimate.
26. My Lords cannot, therefore, agree that the contribution of 40,000l. a-year is sufficient, and they will, therefore, propose that the subject should be referred in November to a committee of Her Majesty's advisers. But, in the meantime, they are prepared to accept, for two years, the contribution of 40,000l. a-year, recommended by the Committee, and accepted by the Secretary of State.
My Lords further consider that the arrangement should be strictly observed under which, in carrying out plans of defence, the colony provides the works, and the Imperial Government the armaments. The colony should therefore refund 9,000l. expended on submarine mining works.
Lastly. Any excess of expenditure and the estimate upon new barracks, should be equally divided between the Imperial and Colonial Governments.
Sir,
13
443
War Office to Treasury.
War Office,
12th November 1889.
1319188
respecting the
40248157
With reference to your letter of the 28th September, No.— sale of land at Hong Kong in connection with the provision of additional barrack accommodation, I am directed by the Secretary of State for War to acquaint you, for the information of the Lords Commissioners of Her Majesty's Treasury, that the sum of 140,000l., mentioned in Appendix D to the IVth Section of the Report of the Committee on Colonial Military Contributions, was not intended as an estimate, the words used being that the North Barracks are worth a large sum of money, perhaps as much as 140,000l.," a sum having been mentioned merely in order to make it clear that the profit anticipated from the proposed sale of property would be a substantial one.
The estimate of the value of the lands proposed to be sold, given in Mr. Knox's letter of the 9th January 1889, Hong Kong 2, is the only one which Mr. Secretary Stanhope is at present in a position to furnish; but as it is gathered from the letter that their Lordships are prepared to view favourably the proposals for the sale of the land at Hong Kong, contained in the War Office letter of 9th January 1889, 41237, a letter is now being written to the station in order to obtain, if possible, a more complete valuation of the lands.
I am to observe that there may be some difficulty in obtaining this information, as it would not be advisable to employ the Colonial Surveyor-General in a case in which the Colonial Government may become the purchaser, but that a valuer, unconnected with the Colonial Government, will be employed, if there is one available. Enquiry will also be made as regards the prices realized at any recent sales of landed property which have been effected in Victoria, which will probably afford the best basis for a valuation.
Plans, showing all the War Department property in Hong Kong, and the portions thereof proposed to be sold, with their areas and valuations, according to the War Office letter of 9th January before alluded to, are herewith forwarded; and it is believed that these plans will give all the information required by their Lordships on this point.
Mr. Secretary Stanhope regrets that he is not yet in a position to give a complete estimate of the cost of providing the additional accommodation for the increased garrison, but he hopes, in a few months' time, to furnish such estimates for certain definite portions of the scheme which will serve to check the confessedly rough estimate in Appendix D.
The 50,000l. mentioned in that Appendix as a very rough estimate for replacing the accommodation that will be lost by the proposed sale of lands, does not include any amount for sites.
The view of the Secretary of State is that the colony should provide such sites on Crown lands, but that it should not be called upon to purchase them at its sole cost, considering the very high price of land in many parts of Hong Kong.
As the War Department is not prepared to pay any large sum for the purchase of sites, it will be necessary to confine the sites, as far as possible, to Crown lands, to be provided free by the colony. From the reports hitherto received, it appears likely that this can generally be done, though it may turn out to be necessary in some cases to supplement the sites thus obtained by purchases to a small extent, to be effected by the War Department, and to be treated as part of the cost of providing barrack accommodation, which their Lordships proposed should be shared equally between the colony and the War Department, as far as it is not met by the proceeds of the sale of property.
Should such cases arise, and every effort will be made to avoid them, they will of course be separately submitted for the sanction of their Lordships.
I am to observe that the paragraph on barracks in the Treasury letter of 28th September 1889, to the Colonial Office (a copy of which letter was forwarded to this office with the letter now under reply) should, apparently, run as follows, after taking into consideration the information contained in the War Office letter of the 9th January 1889, Hong Kong 2, which was written about five and a-half months after the date of Section IV. of the Report of the Committee on Colonial Military Contributions :----
10. It will be necessary to provide additional barracks at Hong Kong for double the existing garrison. The rough and preliminary estimate of the cost is 212,000l. (apart from a sum of 50,000l. for re-providing accommodation that will be lost by the
40248
157
12
of money, perhaps as much as 140,000%. He added that it was also proposed to sell or dispose of Spring Gardens, and ultimately the commissariat buildings and head-quarter offices, and that it was expected in each case that the property would realize enough to re-provide the accommodation lost by its surrender, and to leave a balance of profit to go towards meeting the cost of the additional barracks for the increased garrison.
Mr. Knox estimates that the sale of the North Barracks and Spring Gardens will only produce 126,229%, and as he adds that provision must be made for the head- quarter offices, and the commissariat buildings elsewhere, my Lords presume that the lands on which these offices stand, and which Sir Lothian Nicholson thought would produce a considerable sum over and above the price of the North Barracks (140,0007.), must be included in this sale. It that be the case, it follows that Sir Lothian's estimate was altogether too high. It is most important that there should be no misunderstanding on this point, and my Lords must ask, therefore, for a description of the lands in pos- session of the War Office in Hong Kong, and also for explanation showing how far the proposal made in Mr. Knox's letter agrees with the proposals named by Sir Lothian Nicholson, so that the Treasury may understand to what extent deficiency is likely to arise upon Sir Lothian's estimate.
My Lords ask further whether it is intended that the lands proposed to be sold should be officially valued.
It is not clear whether the sum of 50,6001, required to replace the building lost by the sale of the lands, includes the cost of site. My Lords cannot but think that the Secretary of State should be able now to give a fairly accurate estimato of the cost of barrack and hospital accommodation, assuming the increase of the garrison to be sanc- tioned. The Secretary of State must have observed how invariably approximate estimates for works and armaments have resulted in an increase of the burthen imposed on the British taxpayer, and he will understand my Lords' anxiety to ascertain, as far as possible, the financial result of the somewhat complicated arrangement by which the War Office propose to furnish the accommodation required for the garrison of Hong Kong,
I am, &c.,
The Financial Secretary,
Wur Office.
R. E. WELBY.
EXTRACT from Treasury letter addressed to the Under Secretary of State, Colonial Office, 28th September 1889, respecting the contribution which the Colony of Hong Kong may fairly be expected to make towards the cost of its defence.
Barracks.
*
10. It will be necessary to provide additional barracks at Hong Kong for double the existing garrison. The rough and preliminary estimate of cost is 212,0004, upart from the value of a new site estimated at 30,0002, but Sir A. Ilaliburton's Committee say that this estimate may be exceeded.
It is proposed, as my Lords understand the proposal, that the Imperial Govern- ment shall sell land it now holds, valued at 140,000, to the colony; that this money shall be applied towards the new barracks, reducing their net cost to 72,000%; that the Imperial Government shall pay two-thirds of the charge, or 48,000, and that the Colonial Government shall pay the balance, or 24,000, providing also the land for the new barracks, estimated at 50,000. The proposal therefore means that the Imperial Government should give up sites worth 140,000, and should spend 48,000 in cash; that the colony should find a new site costing 50,0001, and should spend 24,000. in cash. The Committee do not say how they would provide for the excess which they anticipate upon the estimate.
26. My Lords cannot, therefore, agree that the contribution of 40,000l. a-year is sufficient, and they will, therefore, propose that the subject should be referred in November to a committee of Her Majesty's advisers. But, in the meantime, they are prepared to accept, for two years, the contribution of 40,0001. a-year, recommended by the Committee, and accepted by the Secretary of State.
My Lords further consider that the arrangement should be strictly observed under which, in carrying out plans of defence, the colony provides the works, and the Imperial Government the armaments. The colony should therefore refund 9,000% expended on submarine mining worke.
Lastly. Any excess of expenditure and the estimate upon new barracks, should be equally divided between the Imperial and Colonial Governments.
Sir,
13
443
War Office to Treasury.
War Office,
12th November 1889.
13191 88
respecting the
40248 157
With reference to your letter of the 28th September, No.- sale of land at Hong Kong in connection with the provision of additional barrack accommodation, I am directed by the Secretary of State for War to acquaint you, for the information of the Lords Commissioners of Her Majesty's Treasury, that the sum of 140,000, mentioned in Appendix D to the IVth Section of the Report of the Com- mittee on Colonial Military Contributions, was not intended as an estimate, the words used being that the North Barracks are worth a large sum of money, perhaps as much as 140,0001," a sum having been mentioned merely in order to make it clear that the profit anticipated from the proposed sale of property would be a substantial one.
The estimate of the value of the lands proposed to be sold, given in Mr. Knox's letter of the 9th January 1889, Hong Kong 2, is the only one which Mr. Secretary
4123 Stanhope is at present in a position to furnish; but as it is gathered from the letter
15171
that their ander reply, and from the Treasury letter of the 12th October 1889, 89 Lordships are prepared to view favourably the proposals for the sale of the land at Hong Kong 2
Hong Kong, contained in the War Office letter of 9th January 1889, 4123 7
a letter is now being written to the station in order to obtain, if possible, a more com- plete valuation of the lands.
I am to observe that there may be some difficulty in obtaining this information, as it would not be advisable to employ the Colonial Surveyor-General in a case in which the Colonial Government may become the purchaser, but that a valuer, unconnected with the Colonial Government, will be employed, if there is one available. Enquiry will also be made as regards the prices realized at any recent sales of landed property which have been effected in Victoria, which will probably afford the best basis for a valuation.
Plans, showing all the War Department property in Hong Kong, and the portions thereof proposed to be sold, with their areas and valuations, according to the War Office letter of 9th January before alluded to, are herewith forwarded; and it is believed that these plans will give all the information required by their Lordships on this point.
Mr. Secretary Stanhope regrets that he is not yet in a position to give a complete estimate of the cost of providing the additional accommodation for the increased garrison, but he hopes, in a few months' time, to furnish such estimates for certain definite portions of the scheme which will serve to check the confessedly rough esti- mate in Appendix D.
The 50,000% mentioned in that Appendix as a very rough estimate for replacing the accommodation that will be lost by the proposed sale of lands, does not include any amount for sites.
The view of the Secretary of State is that the colony should provide such sites on Crown lands, but that it should not be called upon to purchase them at its sole cost, considering the very high price of land in many parts of Hong Kong.
As the War Department is not prepared to pay any large sum for the purchase of sites, it will be necessary to confine the sites, as far as possible, to Crown lands, to be provided free by the colony. From the reports hitherto received, it appears likely that this can generally be done, though it may turn out to be necessary in some cases to supplement the sites thus obtained by parehases to a small extent, to be effected by the War Department, and to be treated as part of the cost of providing barrack accom- modation, which their Lordships proposed should be shared equally between the colony and the War Department, as far as it is not met by the proceeds of the sale of property.
Should such cases arise, and every effort will be made to avoid them, they will of course be sepurately submitted for the sanction of their Lordships.
I am to observe that the paragraph on barracks in the Treasury letter of 28th
18191 September 1889, to the Colonial Office (a copy of which letter was forwarded
88
to this office with the letter now under reply) should, apparently, run as follows, after taking into consideration the information contained in the War Office letter of the 9th Hong Kong 2, which was written about five and a-half months after January 1889. the date of Section IV. of the Report of the Committee on Colonial Military Con- tributions :----
4123
10. It will be necessary to provide additional barracks at Hong Kong for double the existing garrison. The rough and preliminary estimate of the cost is 212,0007. (apart from a sum of 50,000. for re-providing accommodation that will be lost by the
E
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